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The Snowkiting Forum :: View topic - Building riding topography on frozen lakes
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Building riding topography on frozen lakes
http://snowkiting.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=340		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kayakman [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Building riding topography on frozen lakes
Judging from the various photos and videos on U.S. snowkiting out there on the net, it seems many of us frequently use frozen lakes as prime riding terrain. No doubt we like the public access, general lack of obstructions, and open fetches. But I've noticed they tend to be pretty flat....

Other than building standard snow ramps for jumps, or installing snowboard rails etc, has anyone experimented with ways to create some topography on frozen lake surfaces? Is it feasible to assist the wind in creating wavy ridgeline kinds of snowdrifts across a lake surface, to make the riding terrain more varied?

Planting a snow fence of some sort would help of course, but you have to have or buy the materials. Would it work to use a snowblower to create rough drifts and then let the wind and new snow build it up from there? Or would the wind just flatten the "fake" drift? I'm in ND where the snow has little moisture content, so it's not unusual for 3-day old snow to blow away when the wind picks up. if the snow was wetter, it would pack in somewhat and thus be less likely to blow away.

I suppose if you have friends with ATVs or trucks equipped with plows, that would make much shorter work of building snow dunes.

Any ideas? Is it worth the time/effort?
Author:  Eric B [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
It's been a wet October. I hope that a cold front collides with a wet one overhead so that we get a blanket of moist snow early on --- that would be one way to get snow to stay around all season.

Hmm... I was thinking about spraying 'strips' of fresh snow with water so as to create mini-ridges of hard-pack ice/snow that would build into snowdrifts later in the season. The problems are; outfitting a truck with a water tank, frequently refilling the tank, and keeping the water from freezing. It's just not practical :| .

I think that your truck w/ plow idea is probably the most practical.

The crew in Colorado (Sanitarium) actually grooms their snowkite terrain park to keep the snow packed, level, and densely-packed. They use a snowmobile with a groomer-implement pulled behind. I believe that their snow tends to be more moist than our Midwestern dust.

Does anyone else have suggestions? How can we get snow to stay on a frozen lake without blowing away?
Author:  Guest [ Tue Oct 14, 2008 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
If it is possible to get one on the ice, try a snow blower to create some piles of snow. Here in Utah, after the snow goes through the blower, it changes consitency and texture so that it will set up denser. With this in mind, it should stay put on the ice, assuming the snow sticks around long enough for you to do this. With this pile, you could use as a snow fence type formation to collect more snow, or shape into a kicker. I think it'd be worth your time to try.

Also, snow fence. Two winters ago, I spent $50+ and bought some bambo and plastic snow fence from the Home Depot. I set it up at Pow Mow, it worked a little to good. Unfortunately, you have to dig out and maintain the fence after each snow fall. I wasnt ready for that effort.

Would the snow fence work on Ice? I think it would. You could easily drill some holes in the ice, place bamboo or pvc, and install fence. Worth a try. But its alot of work for a little return.

Eric, the water idea sounds interesting. Our ski area does something similar in theory, no water. They groom multiple trenches along lifts so that snow will drift in before it gets to the lift. It works great, although much larger scale than the mini ridge water idea.

good luck.
Author:  MikeF [ Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
Eric you could always use a pump to pump water right from the lake to apply water to areas. I was working on a snow making gun at one point that would use water straight from the lake.

My qeustion is does grooming remove the day old riding tracks? That can become a rather unpleasent ride here in minnesota when the snow was wet/chooped up/ then refroze again.
Author:  nathan b [ Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
Kayakman this is something I have been experimenting with since the winter of 03-04 when I first started snowkiting , and to tell ya the truth im not sure if its worth the time and effort but its always fun to try ! we have used every thing from snowblowers all the way to 1-ton snowplowtrucks, we even built a man made kicker wich serves as a warming house ..
try to use your resources I luckily have freinds with plow trucks and trailers and we move snow around ..... one thing that might work for your situatoin could be hay bales to act as a fence(the snowfences work on ice but you do need to drill metal poles in wich hold it cause wind will blow over plastic or wood post) they seem to hold the snow well , but as you no being in the frozen tundra as you are the snow doesnt stick well so the biger pile or more bales of hay that are out the more the snow will gather ..
MikeF , yes the groomer will take care of the tracks as long as you have a few inches of base we used one on swede that we made years ago but it just left tire tracks from the truck so its better to have a sled or something with track like as Eric mentoined Anton at CO kiteforce built one for their spot and it worked well with the snowmobile pulling it they get dumped on more then we do in the mid-west so this is a good way to compile a good snow base.
definatly throw a rail together if your into that !, so fun and easy to set up on a flat lake makes for some terrian.

good luck ! let us know how it goes
Author:  MikeF [ Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
Thanks for the info on the groomer, I will definatly try it out this year on swede seeing I have a snowmobile now and access to drags mats from my work (golf course). If anyone is at all interested I will be setting up a few of nathan B's sliders that have been on swede lake in the past. However I will not be setting all of them up seeing I just dont have the man power with the NSK crew being divided up around the country now, Nathan B + Matt K are on the west coast hunter is in colorado and Brian is in iowa.

As of now i plan to set up the UP FLAT, a small 8' skate rail that I made, and possibly hunters rail from 2 years ago (if I can get it back in shape). If anyone is interested in riding these they will be on swede lake minnesota. I can give out my number for contact on request if you want someone to ride with out there however I have a child coming around dec 31st so my riding time will be limited after that.

Nathan it would be nice if the window you are coming back to town is the same time that brian and hunter should be back for winter holiday from school so we can get a NSK rally going.
Author:  Eric B [ Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
Author:  Hunter [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
Im going to be back for a month over winter break and my goal is to get as much set up as possible. I know Nathan will be coming home around then too, our goal is to get something going again, more details later.
Author:  Eric B [ Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
By being back, you mean back to Minnesota, right Hunter?
Author:  MikeF [ Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Building riding topography on frozen lakes
sweet, I have a trailer we can use, I will get over to the farm soon and see if theres anything I can throw a few nails in or repair anything.
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